Comments on: Keys to Faith (formerly: Cornerstones)

By: Will

Will — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 04:13:57 +0000

jss–

Thanks for the links. I will be reading them in short order.

–Will

ps–I just found your links. They got trapped by my spam filter. I’ve released them so that others can benefit also. I really enjoyed your thoughts, and left many comments as you’ve no doubt already seen. wjm

By: Will

Will — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 04:12:48 +0000

Alison–

I’m glad you like it. I am greatly helped by the validation. A few people I know in ‘real life’ have also been offering positive feedback about the spiritual lineup. So I feel good about continuing. My plan is to do another in the series tomorrow. Eventually, my plan is to edit and tighten the posts, and make the project a coherent whole.

Best wishes

–Will

By: Alison Rising

Alison Rising — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:35:01 +0000

Been too busy lately to participate in the discussion, but I wanted to say I’m really enjoying this last string of posts. And this post in particular really captures the spirit of the search for God. I have had some very similar thoughts and feelings…Thanks for posting!!!

By: jss

jss — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:11:57 +0000

Your site doesn’t appear to like my links. I’ve left you a post over at my place with the links.

By: jss

jss — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:03:52 +0000

I’m sure you’re going to be sorry you asked but here you go. Truthfully all of my posts are bent some to the spiritual. To be sure some more than others but they mostly resonate with the ultimate questions that are on my mind.

By: Will

Will — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:33:32 +0000

jss–
This is an altered version of a comment I posted a few minutes ago. I apologized for not seeing the link in your comment. I don’t know how I overlooked it. I read through the comment twice before I answered you, but it was in the small print of the ‘dashboard;’ maybe that explains my oversight, or maybe I should just blame it on ADD. Anyway, I just read your post. I completely agree with it, and could not have said it better. Using the Merton quotes made the post exceptionally readable, a technique I may borrow. As happened before, I find we fundamentally agree.
By the way, I appreciate the nudging to take credit for my thoughts. To invoke my childhood: I was raised to downplay everything I did, take credit for nothing, agree with everyone. You can see it in my writing today. I’d never make it on talk radio (or in the blogosphere, for that matter) because I am unable to be controversial. If anyone challenges me I usually see their point. But I should work on being a little less of a pushover.
Anyway, thanks for the great discussion. I would love to see more of your spiritual posts. I don’t see a way to search your blog (My own site is searchable, but only on my ‘tags’ which I doubt are very useful–a perennial problem with blogging is how the old posts get buried with time.) Would you mind leaving some links in a comment here?

–Will

By: jss

jss — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:45:54 +0000

Why wouldn’t you take credit for them? They’re your thoughts. If not you then who?
And I don’t see any need for you to change what you’ve said about neurological phenomena, or anything else for that matter. The truth is there are so many out there who buy into that (in my opinion) myopic view of spirituality and the interactions of God with human beings. I am not saying it is invalid I am merely pointing out how it might be flawed or used to dismiss farther-reaching possibilities.
I actually have been following your posts on spirituality and I find them very thoughtful and insightful. They are your thoughts, please don’t change them to satisfy somebody else.
By the way I did include a link to the post on my site that I was referring to. If you bother to look you will no doubt see many others that represent the ramblings of my feeble mind. What the hell. It may be feeble but at least it’s mine.

By: Will

Will — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:38:00 +0000

jss–

I did not see your earlier posts. If you provide a link, I’d love to take a look. I actually don’t believe for a moment that ‘spiritual’ neurological phenomenal are without deeper significance. And yes, if there is any kind of divine presence, it no doubt speaks to us through the fabric of creation. At some point spiritual messages would have to find traction in the brain, even if they were broadcast over some mystical ether science has missed so far. But I don’t think there needs to be, or is likely to be, any such ether. I think ‘God’ communicates from the very depths of matter, as my spiritual series will eventually discuss.

Thank you for pointing out how the statement you quote sounds. I want to acknowledge the viewpoint of those who say: ‘oh well, Oliver Sacks talks about all kinds of weird things; religious experiences are just more examples.’ I want to make it clear I’m well aware of that objection. But I’m putting up a straw man. It’s one I plan to demolish later when I elaborate on each of these ‘cornerstones’ of my amateur philosophy. I will go back and change the wording to avoid sounding like I buy into the viewpoint that religious ecstasies are little more than seizures. I can’t deny it’s possible, but I don’t believe it.

By the way, and I will try to say this more than once as I go forward, I don’t claim that any of the concepts I present are novel. These are not new ideas, and I hope my words don’t make it sound like I’m taking credit for them. In bits and pieces I’ve come across most of it in other places. And the parts I think are mine are very likely to have been things I’ve either heard and forgotten that I did, or thought up on my own, but that were also thought of by others. All I’m trying to do is organize this information so that it can be found in one place. So that someone (me?) who wants to get past intellectual arguments to faith can find a series of facts to bolster their conviction that the universe must be more mysterious than the current flock of professional atheists (Dawkins, Hitchens) believe. Even my goal to put such arguments down in one place has been tried many times before, going back hundreds of years. I am just doing the same thing in my own (hopefully unique) way.

–Will

By: jss

jss — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:10:02 +0000

“The experience of God is real. Even if there is nothing on earth besides matter and physical energy, people throughout history have seen, felt, and heard things that convinced them God exists. There is every likelihood that these are just neurological phenomena, but they do occur”
Just ‘neurological phenomena’? I think it highly presumptuous that God could not, would not choose to use neurological or for that matter any other biological phenomena as a means to make himself known to an individual. To reduce someone’s personal experience of a manifestation of God to ‘just neurological phenomena’ is to suggest that he would not operate within the physical laws of the universe which he himself set down. We in our rigid intellectualism always seem to insist that manifestations of God must be presented in our terms or rather in terms of what we think can be classified as miraculous. In doing so we miss a whole hell of a lot of good stuff. It is not at all hard for me to accept that the Red Sea was in fact parted and that the Jews most certainly crossed through it. And it is not at all hard for me to accept that this phenomena could easily be explained in scientific terms that appeal to our intellectual requirements. I would suggest that it is highly likely.
I actually posted thoughts in this direction some months back:
http://jssfive.blogspot.com/2009/09/natural-vs-supernatural.html
if you are interested.

By: lostinamaze

lostinamaze — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:24:25 +0000

I have been mulling over these posts for a bit. I consider myself a spiritual person but in the last few years have somewhat stepped away from my spirituality. I didn’t have to build a belief in God, it seems to have always been within me but I have tried to continue to build upon my belief system. I do wonder about spirituality vs religion. What is the difference and is there a point when spirituality becomes religion? Anyway, I have enjoyed reading about your perspectives and look forward to reading more.